4.30.2008

Wednesday polls: The battle for independents, and Kentucky is Clinton country

After 2 days filled with polls from Indiana and North Carolina, only one primary poll was released today. SUSA polled Kentucky for the third time, and confirms that this could be one of the biggest Clinton states:

  • Clinton now leads Obama 63% to 27%. Two weeks ago, the margin was identical: 62% to 26%.
  • Confirming that Obama's toughest region in the country is the Appalachians, he loses Eastern Kentucky 84% to 10%, implying there is a risk Obama might not be viable in at least one district.
If Hillary Clinton is still in the race after May 6th, it could mean two very rough weeks for Obama as results in West Virginia on the 13th and Kentucky on the 20th aren't likely to look very good for him. The demographics of these states will allow Clinton, if she lives up to the potential of this SUSA poll, to further her argument that Obama is too weak among white blue-collar voters to win the general election. Whether or not that hurts Obama among superdelegates, such conversation would continue to put him on the defensive.

National polls confirm that Clinton has found a second life since her Pennsylvania primary. Today's Gallup poll has Clinton edging out Obama 47% to 46% for the second day in a row; it had been quite a while Clinton had been on top two consecutive days. And Fox News's latest poll released today has Clinton leading 44% to 41%. These polls are obviously useless measures, since most states have already voted by now; but they still hint at the mood of the electorate and the two candidates' momentum.

Meanwhile, a series of general election surveys confirms how difficult it is to establish electability comparisons:

  • Fox News finds Clinton edging out McCain nationally, 45% to 44%; Obama trails 46% to 43%. Among independents, a group Obama typically does better in, Clinton now performs better but McCain beats them both (by 4% against Clinton, by 10% against Obama).
  • Interestingly, an Obama-Clinton ticket would beat a McCain-Romney ticket 47% to 41%, suggesting that Democrats would have an edge if they can present a united front.
  • Update: A new New York Times poll was just released. It shows Obama leading Clinton 46% to 38% in the primary but it also shows Clinton running better in the general, leading McCain 48% to 43% while Obama and McCain are tied at 45%.
  • A poll taken in AZ by Arizona State, meanwhile, finds McCain in single-digits against Obama, leading 47% to 38%. He leads against Clinton by a wider 53% to 37%.
  • Finally, a somewhat surprising poll by Monmouth University from New Jersey finds McCain trounced by both candidates. He trails Obama 56% to 32% and Clinton 52% to 38%. The main difference between the two candidates is their strength among independents, as Clinton leads by 1% and Obama by 17%.
Most polls taken in New Jersey suggest a close race; the latest poll prior to this one has both Democrats ahead by 5% and McCain has been able to remain very competitive in Northeastern states. This poll thus looks to overstate the Democrats' advantage, but it still stands as a reminder of how tough the Garden State still is for Republicans; they seem to waste a lot of money only two years for very little rewards.

Meanwhile, the results in Arizona confirm that McCain starts clearly ahead and it would probably make little sense for Democrats to spend resources here; but I would not be surprised if the race ends up being more competitive here than the conventional wisdom suggests. You might remember that McCain did not even break 50% on February 5th, besting Romney by 12%; McCain seems to have some problems in his home state.

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34 Comments:

  • The national polls are the most important ones now because they'll sway the superdelegates the most. As Obama falls his support from the supers will drain away.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 30 April, 2008 16:22  

  • The vast majority of the national polls in the last 90 days have been in Obama's favor.

    Wait and see what tomorrow brings.

    By Blogger Statistikhengst, At 30 April, 2008 17:00  

  • Tomorrow brings another sobering rant from another radical Obama supporter. There was a nice one on CNN just now promising "bloodbaths in every city" if Hillary wins. I'm sure that presence of Farrakhan's security guards at the Press Club means that a new member of Barack's entourage will be performing soon. It's getting very entertaining. He hasn't even been indicted yet. The Chicago Tribune apparently is expecting that soon.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 30 April, 2008 17:09  

  • anonymous 17:09, I don't see how Mark's comment is "another sobering rant from another radical Obama supporter". You seem to be content to flame.

    It seems that Clinton has improved her image, which is amazing because she didn't get such a boost after Ohio and Texas. I think that since the MSM and the GOP are purely focusing on Obama's negative, Clinton's weaknesses are being forgotten for now and she is now doing better.

    In Kentucky it seems that it will be grouped with Arksasas as a state that Clinton wins with more than 60% of the vote. Obama has a little more of a chance because he has the most promient supporter in WV for now, Sen Rockfeller. If Gov. Machin was to endorse Obama then WV numbers would probably go up.

    The newest NJ poll is a bit of a suprise but in many recent cycles the Republicans poll well earlier in the year but by the time fall comes around they fall flat. The NJ GOP's best chance to regain some sort of power will be to challange Corzine in 2009 during his reeletion bid as he is still very unpopular in the state. The NJ poll is definitly reassuring for Obama because NJ EVs give him some breathing room.

    The AZ poll is intersting but being at a nine point loss isn't someting to get too excited about. Maybe McCain isn't as strong in his home state as many think but he is still a Republican from a state that strongly tilts GOP in federal races.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 30 April, 2008 17:39  

  • Jaxx I wasn't referring to Mark, you seem to be a little off base. I got a tip that Obama's testimony might be a fatal blow to his candidacy. Those tips have been right on the money. That investigation just netted Hastert. It's a long way from over. Every day is a new discovery. One thing is for sure and that's the fact that Obama will not be the nominee and no Democrat will have to suffer through his losing the WH to McCain.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 30 April, 2008 18:50  

  • That NYT/CBS poll was too early to show Obama's fall but the internals are really dismal for him.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 30 April, 2008 19:31  

  • Operation Chaos working beautifully..... Maybe Romney will be President yet. McCain not the healthiest as the dimwits in the mainstream media are sure to point out.

    By Blogger Redneckman, At 30 April, 2008 20:56  

  • Holy Moly can you believe this?

    InsiderAdvantage/Majority Opinion Survey: North Carolina Democratic Primary: Hillary Clinton Takes Lead Over Obama

    Compiled from InsiderAdvantage and Southern Political Report staff



    April 30, 2008 — A survey of 571 registered likely voters in North Carolina’s May 6 Democratic primary shows Sen. Hillary Clinton having moved from a double digit deficit in an InsiderAdvantage poll taken in mid-April to a two point lead over Sen. Barack Obama in this telephone survey, conducted April 29. The survey was weighted for age, race, gender, and political affiliation. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.8%

    The results were:


    Hillary Clinton: 44%
    Barack Obama: 42%
    Undecided: 14%

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 30 April, 2008 23:16  

  • The voters in those states insist on voting for a 109 million dollars elitist and a pathological liar. They prefer to blindly follow the phony sniper fire victims and a former Wal-Mart board member over a former community organizer.
    The only other 2 reasons for preferring to vote for Hillary are racism and name recognition -- in this nation of bigots with a long history of minority repression and gross media bias (the media fails to note Rev. Hagee's recent hateful, anti-American comments while overwhelmingly going after a black pastor).
    As a white man, I am so tired and so sick to even be called an American. I have NEVER been proud of this idiotic and bigoted nation except when it undertook acts of compassion toward the poor in particular and humanity as a whole in general.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 07:04  

  • 7:04-Please continue your rants. You're the reason Obama will never succeed. Obamans hate America and are hate filled bigots like you. Thank you for confirming it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 07:28  

  • Did any body hear that Obama was planning a sudden withdrawal next week? That would be pretty abrupt. I know he's in trouble but he should at least wait for the papers to break it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 07:30  

  • Looks like today brought a loss for Obama in NC.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 07:50  

  • I heard that a superdelegate pledged to Clinton has switched and now supports Obama. He was an ex chairman of the DNC. I thought it was meant to be Obama worried about his SD's switiching, maybe not all doom and gloom for the front runner.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 08:01  

  • Probably white too. Don't you people get it? It's very popular to be seen as supporting the black guy when you have a black constituency. Knowing that he can't win means it's a safe cover. When Barack drops out, they can all say "not me" and try to quell the "bloodbath" the Obamabots keep promising.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 08:09  

  • Mike you missed yesterday's memo. Obama's the "underdog" now, he's no longer the "frontrunner". Get with the program.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 08:17  

  • Obama will be the frontrunner as long as he keeps his 100+ PD lead. Anon 23:16 I haven't seen that poll, but if Clinton actually WINS NC, then I'm afraid it will be the beginning of the end for the Obama campaign. To lose in a state that favors Clinton is one thing, to lose in a state that you yourself is favored is another. If Clinton pulls it off, I think some SDs supporting Obama will start switching to Clinton. Netherless, I think that Obama's weakness in the GE compared to Clinton has to do with all of hte negative stories being primarly about him, with the GOP, Clinton, and the MSM going after him, while Clinton is being forgotten and just like the forgotten McCain is rising in support.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 08:30  

  • Jaxx-the Obama campaign insists you stop using "frontrunner" and use "underdog" instead. He can't take the heat. I don't think anyone has to go after Obama. Wright has it covered.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 08:46  

  • Joe Andrews switched and he does not represent an area but is from Indiana - not a state known for having a large AA population. He is white and was appointed by Bill CLinton, supported Hillary and has witched. Umm not the best scenario for Clinton.

    Obama is doing well in the polls when you consider him having two opponents - one Democratic and one from the GOP. Then he has the whole Wright issue.

    Obama is the front runner in terms of delegates and popular vote (correctly counted).
    But it is true that compared to the Clinton "machine" he is the underdog. Clinton can raise money, has played the "game" a long time etc etc and yet she is still behind. Hardly a ringing endorsement of her abilities.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 09:01  

  • Hmm now the Clinton's are a machine again? Raising money? She leads in the popular vote and leads in support from Democrats. Your assertion of correctness is a direct assault on our values as Democrats as well as Americans. I guess that's not surprising from someone who supports the America haters. Everyone in this country now sees Obama as hating America and Hillary as overwhelmingly patriotic. I'd say she has the commanding lead and future polling will bear that out.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 09:23  

  • Anonymous 9:23 you have the right to be a Clinton supporter but your flaming and absolute derishion of Obama is sickening.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 09:52  

  • Everyone in this country now sees Obama as hating America and Hillary as overwhelmingly patriotic.

    Everyone? Really?

    By Blogger dsimon, At 01 May, 2008 09:58  

  • Well Jaxx get ready for a sickening day. Obama is going to be derided thoroughly and his wife has just reminded everyone that she also hates America. Barack, through his own stupidity has made himself public enemy no.1. People just don't support anti-Americanism. It might make you sick but your blindness to his obvious shortcomings don't stop the presses. So toughen up and take it. Next time you could use perspective to foresee this. This race was a process of elimination for me since I started out thinking Edwards was the obvious winner. I gave both Hillary and Barack fair chances but Barack has steered his campaign off a cliff. There's no chance now for him.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 10:05  

  • Dsimon you don't count. Cult members excluded.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 10:06  

  • Here's a nice example; while touring a turbine plant in Ind. he likened a part to a "surfboard"! Surfboards are real popular in that neck of the woods! He's just not fitting in.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 10:18  

  • A survey of 571 registered likely voters in North Carolina’s May 6 Democratic primary shows Sen. Hillary Clinton having moved from a double digit deficit in an InsiderAdvantage poll taken in mid-April to a two point lead over Sen. Barack Obama

    It's possible that the poll is correct. It's also possible that the poll is like the PPP polls that twice had Obama up by three points going into Pennsylvania.

    In addition to the polling results, it's important to keep in mind two other numbers: the margin of error, and the confidence interval.

    The typical confidence interval is 95%. That means if ran the poll 20 times, it would capture the value in the population within the margin of error 19 times.

    So the above poll says that there's a 95% chance that Clinton has between 40 and 48% of the vote, and Obama has between 38 and 46%. And there's a 5% chance that the vote is outside of those ranges.

    There's a lot of polling being done, so eventually we'll run into the one out of twenty that's just off. Can't say whether this is one of them (we shouldn't go around saying the polls that support one candidate must be right and the ones that don't are wrong). But it's something to keep in mind when looking at polls.

    By Blogger dsimon, At 01 May, 2008 10:25  

  • wow...the comments are really getting out of hand on this really civil, rather unbiased, well-written blog

    By Blogger Unknown, At 01 May, 2008 10:49  

  • (in other words, let's respect the amazing job the blogger is doing with regards to remaining unbiased and respectful of all POVs and do the same in our commenting)

    By Blogger Unknown, At 01 May, 2008 10:50  

  • I'm supporting the best nominee, then the Democratic party. Despite repeated accusations from Obamabots that I'm a Hillary fan, I've consistently favored the most electable candidate. I can't help that it's matter of pointing out why Obama can't win. That's Obama's fault. If Barack was the most electable I'd have no choice to point out why Hillary isn't. If you Obamans spent as much time attacking his detrimental aspects as you do attacking the messenger, he'd be doing far better than he is.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 11:05  

  • I can't help that it's matter of pointing out why Obama can't win.

    But where is that in the data? Don't national polls against McCain show both Democratic candidates doing about the same? If so, how can we conclude with absolute, or even marginal, confidence that one candidate can win but the other can't?

    I just don't see how it is that either candidate "can't" win. The issues favor the Democrats, so it seems to me that either candidate should win.

    By Blogger dsimon, At 01 May, 2008 11:21  

  • dsimon-ignoring data again? You can go to RCP too you know.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, At 01 May, 2008 15:15  

  • ignoring data again? You can go to RCP too you know.

    And I do. And I see some polls with Clinton doing better against McCain than Obama, and some with Obama doing better, and the differences well within the polls' margins of error. The more recent ones are more in Clinton's favor, to be expected with Obama having a tough few weeks, but they're still within the polling margin of error. And some in the "Obama can't win" crowd have been saying that for weeks, even when older polls that had Obama slightly better against McCain than Clinton.

    They're certainly far too close to conclude with the "can't win" certainty that one can win but the other definitely can't, especially this far from November.

    By Blogger dsimon, At 01 May, 2008 17:20  

  • By Blogger oakleyses, At 15 November, 2015 22:15  

  • By Blogger oakleyses, At 15 November, 2015 22:21  

  • By Blogger oakleyses, At 15 November, 2015 22:33  

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